Private University violates handbook in expulsion of student

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Private University violates handbook in expulsion of student

Post  CorrectUAre on Sun Sep 04, 2011 4:57 pm

Can a moderator PM me?

I really don't want to begin this discussion on the threads, given the hostility I met with at the other site.

I began to become concerned at what they were trying to get me to say, and there was NO way I was going to have the "accused" post to these hostile moderators.

I can be more specific, but I will not do it openly on the threads. I hope you understand.

We're alleging breach of contract by the university, along with defamation of character, and an adversarial judicial proceeding because the school was represented by a trained interrogator (police officer) in the hearing acting in an official capacity for the school, (we have this in writing on their letterhead), but my son was not afforded an attorney in a proceeding where he could likely end up being charged with a crime, which in fact the interrogator said he had evidence of, but would not produce the evidence on demand.

This "meeting" lasted 3 hours where the accused was peppered with questions, accusations, threats of going to jail, etc, all in an attempt to get him to admit to something they would not produce evidence of, even though the school handbook clearly says he has a right to see evidence, and a right to not answer, and a right to be notified in writing of ALL charges. He was NOT notified in writing of the charges they were accusing him of in the meeting.

There is much more, too much to post here, and as I've said already, given the attack I endured from others on another board, I will post to these threads and not the accused, in order to protect him from further harm.

Thank you.


Last edited by CorrectUAre on Sun Sep 04, 2011 5:56 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : Add more detail)

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Re: Private University violates handbook in expulsion of student

Post  JoeC (McGruff) on Sun Sep 04, 2011 10:47 pm

Is this an employment law issue? Please try to give a brief synopsis of the problem; and no this in not LLT we don't kick around posters that are posting their problem.
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Private University - Handbook Violation - Contract Law

Post  CorrectUAre on Mon Sep 05, 2011 3:38 am

No, it's not an employment law issue but since this is a private university, we contend they've committed a breach of contract by not abiding by the handbook when they dismissed my son, (a student). I'm wanting your opinion on how you think contract law may apply in this situation.

They violated the handbook, read that "contract", when they did not give my son the opportunity to rebut before he was unilaterally and summarily kicked off campus on the word of one person who provided NO evidence to back up the accusation.

The decision to expel my son was also supposed to be made in concert with a student life group, and there was no such meeting. We asked for the people consulted, and when the meeting occurred. He has that right according to the handbook, and he was never given this information.

The handbook clearly states that any student involved in a formal disciplinary action is provided certain rights, namely they can request the evidence against them, which we did and were denied, the right to know the charges against them in writing, which he was not given, except in the broadest of terms, and when he talked to the Dean, they tried to get him to answer to charges NOT specified in the letter of dismissal he received.

We're alleging breach of contract because the handbook also says the student will be afforded the opportunity to "interact with the institution" but a one way letter of dismissal from the Dean does not amount to "interaction with the institution".

Is this enough for you to base an opinion on, or do I need to give you more? I could fill pages at this point.

Thanks for your help.


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Re: Private University violates handbook in expulsion of student

Post  JoeC (McGruff) on Mon Sep 05, 2011 12:15 pm

Okay this is a general contract law question. You signed a document indicating that you have read the handbook, understood it and would abide by it. Your son also signed a similar document. Those documents are legal contracts. They spell out the rules which govern your relationship with your school. The purpose of contract law is to make the plaintiff whole, there is no punitive damage award or pain and suffering in contract law, as there is in tort law. So what you have to do is is take the documents you have to an attorney to decipher if a breach of contract has occurred. The problem is if a breach occurred what will the damage award be, or can a judge reinstate your son back to the university.
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Can you now answer this

Post  CorrectUAre on Mon Sep 05, 2011 12:46 pm

Too much time has passed now for him to catch up with studies, and with what this pit of vipers have shown us of themselves, I can't possibly imagine why my son would feel "safe" going back on campus. If this meeting was not an attempt to intimidate and harass my son, I don't know what was. My son is genuinely worried that if he goes back to this campus, what are they going to do to him next?

Also, they did this in such a fashion that he now has lost his scholarships, student loan was not processed, and his Pell Grant. They in fact cancelled his registration, but did not inform him. We tried to register him at another local college, but there was money owing the university from last year that we had taken care of going forward in his loan for this year, but now I would have to pay them close to 1000.00 that DAY in order to get them to release his transcript. They timed this perfectly. Can you say "constructive discharge"?

As to his "hearing": A farce

A police officer was present at the 3 hour hearing that took place and the roster on the school letterhead said he was representing the Dean. This man is a trained interrogator.

He accused my son of "harassment" (sexual harassment was NOT alleged) of his girlfriend over the summer, and said he had evidence my son had committed these crimes. Since he was acting in an official capacity for the school, that makes him subject to the "contract" in my book. (We feel they threatened my son in this way during the meeting as a "shot over our bow" that if we pursue the school on breach of contract, she will sue my son for "harassment".)

I believe the officer not only committed a breach of the contract as well since he would not produce the evidence of my sons crime when challenged to do so, but he committed defamation of character as well, especially since he said he had PROOF of my sons "crimes" as a fact. Defamation carries punitive damages as well, correct?

Also, my son was definitely out-gunned here since this man is a trained police interrogator, and he was accusing my son of things in this disciplinary action that could result in criminal charges. My son should have been allowed to have counsel present. Can you imaging sitting in a room with 8 people peppering you with questions for 3 hours like this? This was a setup.

So are you well versed enough in this area of law to say at least there is a strong possibility that defamation of character very likely occurred, since the officer was not just stating that he had good reason to believe but that he in fact said he had EVIDENCE my son absolutely did these things? He went so far as to cite chapter and verse and tell my son how long he could spend in prison.

If you can't answer this, can you direct me to someone that can?

Thanks for your help so far.

Also, are you seeing now why little jeffy was in over his head? Couldn't help but put that in there. What a dunce.


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Re: Private University violates handbook in expulsion of student

Post  JoeC (McGruff) on Mon Sep 05, 2011 1:09 pm

I will be back this afternoon so post the state city you are in I'll look around. No I can not answer if the contract has been breached, as far as the dean using a police officer to prosecute his case I doubt that rises to a breach. No one on the Internet can tell you if a contract breach occurred with 100% specificity, only an attorney that has read all the documents can make that call. Also is there an arbitration provision in the contract as well? My guess is yes there is, which means this case never even goes before a judge.
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Sent you 2 PM's

Post  CorrectUAre on Mon Sep 05, 2011 1:50 pm

Looking forward to hearing from you this after noon. Enjoy the day.

Not saying the presence of the officer representing the Dean was a breach, but since he was representing the Dean in the capacity of the school, he is subject to the "contract" and since my son has the right to the evidence, when the officer was challenged to bring out the evidence and refused, the officer then breached the contract as well.

It is also not "fundamentally fair" in my book to have a trained interrogator present at a meeting in which my son could possibly say something for which he could be later criminally prosecuted. To make it "fundamentally fair" in that situation, my son should have been represented by counsel to protect him.

I think we can get this whole sordid affair thrown out on this alone.

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Re: Private University violates handbook in expulsion of student

Post  JoeC (McGruff) on Tue Sep 06, 2011 12:18 am

Please no P.M's on things that should be posted. The purpose here is to help others that me be in the same pickle. I understand the state city part but I am posting the one that deals with arbitration.


CorrectUAre
I see no language in the handbook of this nature. So you're saying in that instance, this would all be negotiated behind the scenes by an attorney representing my son and one for the school? Can you elaborate? What if no agreement can be reached in arbitration?

Thanks again

If there is an arbitration provision then the decision of the arbitrator would be final. It is called biding arbitration. Parties who agree to arbitration are bound to that agreement and also bound to satisfy any award determined by the arbitrator. Courts in most jurisdictions enforce awards. Moreover, they allow little or no option for appeal, expecting parties who arbitrate to assume the risks of the process.

As I mentioned you need an attorney in the jurisdiction where this contract was signed. The attorney will review the claim and proceed from there.
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Thank you, will do

Post  CorrectUAre on Tue Sep 06, 2011 1:00 am

I really appreciate how you've treated me with respect. I would not have my son post to those SOB's on the "expert" site. They don't deserve it and would only tear him apart as well. What a bunch of losers.

I'll keep you apprised of how it's going. I have actually called a couple of lawyers, and one is supposed to get back to me. I'll put in a call tomorrow. I was needing some feedback on whether or not we had something to argue or not, and you helped me with that question.

I do have a stake in the outcome since I am on the hook for money owed now, which had been taken care of in his student loan this year.

Thanks again. Take care.

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Re: Private University violates handbook in expulsion of student

Post  JoeC (McGruff) on Tue Sep 06, 2011 1:28 am

How much money are you out? What year is your son in? As I mentioned the purpose of contract law is to make the parties whole. As far as expert law that is listed as a sham site on this board, because they got a bunch of clowns posting.
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Re: Private University violates handbook in expulsion of student

Post  JoeC (McGruff) on Tue Sep 06, 2011 1:48 am

OMG!!! I am reading the responses over there now; cbg is a complete idiot!

Nazi cbg:
Private institutions are not legally obligated to follow their own policies and procedures. Public institutions are. Private institutions are not.
It is the opposite. The rights of a student in public school are not the same as those that attend private school. That's because everything pertaining to private school is governed by contract law. This is important to understand especially when it comes to infractions of the discipline rules or code of conduct. The U. S. Constitution's Fourth and Fifth Amendments are exclusive to the nation's public schools.

The net effect of contract law as it pertains to students is that it makes students accountable for their actions. For example, if you are caught smoking dope on campus and the school has a zero tolerance policy regarding smoking pot, the student will be in a lot of trouble. He will be held accountable for his actions. The review and consequences will be swift and final. But if he were in public school, you could claim protection under your constitutional rights.

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Re: Private University violates handbook in expulsion of student

Post  JoeC (McGruff) on Tue Sep 06, 2011 2:08 am

OMG the more I read these idiots the more I want throw up. It is the typical rat pack of losers from LLT cyjeff, cbg, and the whole lot. Except fatty PattyMd she is definitely a no-show.

http://www.expertlaw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=128358
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Wondered if you'd make the trip over there!

Post  CorrectUAre on Tue Sep 06, 2011 2:26 am

Now you see what I was talking about. What a bunch of A@@holes. They are freakin' morons to boot.

I've been reading as much as I possibly can online in an effort to help my son, and I am absolutely sorry I had the misfortune to run into that bunch of psychos. I've left the site but they refused to delete my account and remove my posts.

Words fail me to describe just how despicable I believe them to be on that site.

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Here is some of what I've read

Post  CorrectUAre on Tue Sep 06, 2011 2:28 am

Not sure if it's okay for me to post a link to this forum as a "newbie" but I'll give it a shot:

(Well as I thought I can't post a link for 7 days. McGruff, this is an excellent article. Any way that I can get the link to you? I think you'd like this very much.)

This excellent article was very helpful, and will be of benefit to all that come here with similar issues.

Thanks McGruff, you've helped take a bite out of my son and my anxiety.

Bless you!

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I'm out 1,000.00 for his transcript

Post  CorrectUAre on Tue Sep 06, 2011 2:36 am

But, he was unable to register for school locally because they waited to the last day before registration deadline to even bother to tell him they had cancelled his registration. We were in negotiations to come back to campus, and they had cancelled his registration, unbeknownst to us until it was too late.

My son is out nearly 20,000.00 this year, not to mention the $24,000 borrowed so far. He's a Senior this year. Also, nearly 50 of his credits won't transfer to any public institution, so it effectively makes him a Sophomore, not to mention he will have to tell any school he goes to that he was not in good standing when he left.

This has huge ramifications for him going forward, and we've proven the charges to be false. In fact, they dismissed him after the 3 hour meeting on an issue totally unrelated to the original charge.

This entire process was "fundamentally unfair".

They even went so far as to try and say that he had no rights after being judged guilty and kicked out, but only had rights if he appealed. So a student can only appeal after they've been judged guilty and "executed"? If he's been judged GUILTY in absentia, then what is the point of an appeal to the very same people that have already said "You are guilty"??? This is LAUGHABLE, but that's what they told him. Un-freakin' believable!

And as I've said, he so far over and above proved the original charge to be false and that they violated the handbook at ever turn, that when they replied and denied his appeal, they used some other "process" charge to uphold the expulsion. These people are corrupt, in my humble opinion.

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Re: Private University violates handbook in expulsion of student

Post  JoeC (McGruff) on Tue Sep 06, 2011 2:48 am

You need a lawyer badly; you are hobbled with out one. Those clowns you talked to at expert law are known for their their stupidity, they are there for one purpose “to look for open wounds to rub salt on” have none of it.

With the exception of knowitall not one single poster provided any useful information. Those people are losers, unhappy with their own lot in life they troll those boards and pack up on aggrieved posters. And the site owners let them get away with it, because the site owner only cares about adding volume for good search engine placement. That way the owners can charge advertisers for space on their sham sites. It took me along time to figure that out until I tried making an alternative site to those sham sites.
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Sorry about the last PM

Post  CorrectUAre on Tue Sep 06, 2011 3:07 am

I didn't see your response about not sending those until just now. Sorry.

I was supposed to get an call today from one of the attys I contacted here locally, and thanks for the referral in the PM.

I think we have a strong case to make, and I was looking for some confirmation that we should pursue it, not that someone online could tell us if we could win or not.

I really appreciate all your help. By the way, I'm also a webmaster, having my own little online reseller business, and I blocked their IP's from being able to view any of my websites. I blocked their entire domain as well, and they also cannot email me. Losers.

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Re: Private University violates handbook in expulsion of student

Post  JoeC (McGruff) on Tue Sep 06, 2011 3:35 am

I dont care if they see what I write or not. You can post links here if you want, if you have an attorney you like there is forum for posting that, same with law books, and helpfull sites. And of course sham sites to avoid such as LLT and other bogus sites.
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Thanks

Post  CorrectUAre on Tue Sep 06, 2011 3:39 am

I'll poke around the site some and post links where I can. I tried to post a link to the article, but I'll give you the name and you can Google it yourself. That should take you to it. It's an interesting read.

STUDENT MISCONDUCT AT PRIVATE COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES: A ROADMAP FOR “FUNDAMENTAL FAIRNESS” IN DISCIPLINARY PROCEEDINGS

Have a good night.

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Re: Private University violates handbook in expulsion of student

Post  JoeC (McGruff) on Tue Sep 06, 2011 3:56 am

Boston College Law Review, that is a good find, read that and it should help you out. That is the kind of stuff you want to find on the internet doing reasearch, not lame websites like LLT and expert law.
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Have appointment...

Post  CorrectUAre on Tue Sep 06, 2011 5:47 pm

The attorney I was waiting for called and setup an appointment following his trip out of town. I guess there was enough merit to the story I told them to at least hear us fully regarding the breach of contract.

Seems it all boils down to "fundamental fairness" and with the exception of a few people that deserve to remain nameless, all have agreed that the process was not fair, and that they would not want to be treated the same way, especially having a trained interrogator grill my son about things for which he could be criminally prosecuted, without counsel beside him to keep him from stepping into any traps.

Thanks McGruff. Will keep you advised, and will wholeheartedly recommend your site to anyone I know seeking guidance.

Take good care.

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Re: Private University violates handbook in expulsion of student

Post  JoeC (McGruff) on Tue Sep 06, 2011 7:47 pm

Yea let us know how it turns out; there is a lot of money at stake. D-bag cyjeff kept refering to your son as your "adult son" (like that some how this is none of your concern legally) he totally leaves out the fact that you have a financial investment in your "adult son" to the the tune of $20,000.00, it is no different than if you were paying your "adult son's" car payments for a car in your name. cyjef is a jag-off always will be.
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My Adult SON, is just that...my Son

Post  CorrectUAre on Wed Sep 07, 2011 12:14 am

And as long as he is my son I will always to go the wall for him. I'd hate to be a family member of the coward cyjeff, or the other low life moderators on that site.

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